What is it like There?

[sapphire kate]

Here's Susun's blogpost on anger. It's worth reading through all the comments including the second page.

http://www.wisewomantradition.com/empow ... un_so.html

[zakiyaa]

thank you for posting this link. the third comment, written by her daughter, really explain it all.

even though i have only known susun for a few years and only studied with her in person a handful of times, her post absolutely mirrors my feelings. she is not an "easy" teacher, but i love susun and respect her immensely.

[YesSheSaid]

What does everyone here think of her "Pay in Full in Advance" and "Absolutely No Refund whatsoever Not even a Partial Refund" policy for men and women who have attended her seminars and within minutes decided this is not how they choose to spend a week of "learning"? I know I'm not the only one who read in advance that she yells at people...but I did not feel even close to prepared for what was in store for me. I'm not disagreeing that Susun has touched so many of you...but no one has mentioned the fact that she charges a hefty sum of money to be in her presence for a week. Do you all agree that her methods reflect an ethical way to run a business?

Also...a previous post asked the question
"How does Susun react when a woman does step up to her?" Plenty of people says that she has more respect for them overall, but from my experience when I or another woman there even tried to approach anything that she might disagree with...all I heard was her yelling LOUDER and LOUDER and LOUDER until the other person just seemed to give up.

At welcoming circle she passed around the stick to ask if there was anything specific any of us would like to cover while we were there, and she would try to accommodate us. All women except for two were screamed at for voicing their specific interests. I personally went there very SPECIFICALLY to learn of herbs used in birth control and early pregnancy terminations. I started by mentioning my interest in this as the medical and pharmaceutical companies have taken our ancient knowledge, bastardized it, and we are now paying for it financially and environmentally in this disturbed warped manner. I concluded with "and the way people vote these days..I want to be prepared to help my fellow sisters out in case abortion becomes illegal again." Susun did not like this and immediately started not just yelling, but screaming and crying to me saying "how dare you EVER say anything like that again." She continues to tell me that she soaked blood through every sheet, towel, and washcloth in the house and almost died. And continues to scream about how much she donates to Planned Parenthood each month so that thoughts like mine can never sweep into reality. I tried to let her know that I donate to Planned Parenthood each month too, and if she listened to me that I think we were actually agreeing on the real issue at hand. She would have none of it. I hadn't even been there 15minutes and this was Susun's 3rd outburst directed at me. It was at least her 10th all together in 15 minutes. I feel that plenty of my hard earned money and time that I value for myself was spent listening to counter-productive ranting. I still left as peacefully as possible, after she kept me there for another 3 hours refusing to speak with me and then wouldn't let another woman move her car so I could physically leave. I could go on and on and on about that 4-5 hours of my life on her estate and I wouldn't be repeating anything from my previous posts...but... All I asked for was $500 of my $600 back for her time, a cup of tea, some puffed snacks from Trader Joes, and the inconveniences food costs she had budgeted into the 4day seminar. I may buy some of her books used...but I will never give her any any more of my valuable time or money.

So I ask all of you....WOULD YOU FEEL MORALLY SOUND WITH YOURSELVES RUNNING A BUSINESS THIS WAY? IS IT ETHICAL TO RUN A BUSINESS IN THIS MANNER FOR SIMPLY POSSESSING KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION THAT WE SEEK TO KNOW OURSELVES??? WHY IS THIS NEVER SPOKEN OF IN ALL OF THESE FORUMS? DO WE AS A COMMUNITY OF KNOWLEDGE SEEKERS REFUSE TO VALUE OUR OWN TIME, SELF WORTH, OR THE MONEY WE WORK FOR?

Thanks everyone if you read this far!
Christina

[sapphire kate]

I would be angry if I was treated that way, and I would also feel ripped off. Have to say though that many people run workshops on a no refund policy. I don't agree with that completely, but am just pointing out it's not a Susun Weed thing.

I haven't been in Susun's presence for many years so I don't feel I can say much about how she is now (she seems to have changed). Looking from the outside, and seeing what's been happening with the websites etc, there is definitely a marked increase in the commercialisation of many things. I feel uncomfortable about some of it (most of the emails I get now are trying to sell me something, and the newsletter seems like an advertorial more than anything). I don't have an opinion about whether there are ethical issues involved in how Susun runs her businesses (except there are always ethical consideration in running businesses).

I'm sorry you had such a crap experience. For many years it was my dream to go and study with Susun on her home ground. As it turned out I didn't need to do that and found my learning on other places and ways, and am grateful I didn't have to learn via the school of hard knocks I agree that many people are helped by her direct teaching in many ways and that some are harmed. I think it's good that you address these issues here.

(although I think using caps when writing is conveying a degree of stress and intensity that may not help so much).

"How does Susun react when a woman does step up to her?" Plenty of people says that she has more respect for them overall, but from my experience when I or another woman there even tried to approach anything that she might disagree with...all I heard was her yelling LOUDER and LOUDER and LOUDER until the other person just seemed to give up.

That wasn't quite what I meant. I meant what happens when someone stands up to Susun herself - not the things you disagree on. I'm more interested in the power dynamics and whether they're irredeemable. So if Susun is treating someone like s**t, what happens if that person calls her out on treating them like s**t? How does that person manage their power in themselves? I'm not saying that people should do this btw, it strikes me as a reasonably risky thing to do and would need quite a high level of skill (and luck).

[Movlin]

What does everyone here think of her "Pay in Full in Advance" and "Absolutely No Refund whatsoever Not even a Partial Refund" policy for men and women who have attended her seminars and within minutes decided this is not how they choose to spend a week of "learning"?

I have no opinion on the rest of this discussion but i do know why businesses practice this policy (disclaimer: not saying these are the reasons that susun practices these policies as i have no idea what her decisions are). having owned/managed more than one business that relies on seminars and workshops for revenue -

1) when a customer signs up for a limited space event they are taking a spot that is now unfillable by anyone else, thus if they decide at the last minute to bail out on the event and demand their money back the company/proprietor is screwed. Now, not only have they lost the revenue of the customer that is leaving, but they have lost the revenue of another customer that could have potentially taken that space and not bailed out.

2) preparing for a certain number of participants requires labor, time, and monetary investment (ie, food, staffing, lodging, equipment, etc.)

these are just a couple of reasons - thought it might help you understand that this is a normal business practice and not something individual to susun.

[Sieren]

I am asking partly out of curiosity and partly for preperation, as I intend to go to one of Susun's workshops eventually. What exactly does she yell at people about? Like what kind of a mistake would someone make that would cause her to yell at them? Is it just her being loud and fierce, as she says, or is it insulting the other person?
Personally, I grew up in a very repressed, passive-agressive environment where expressing yourself in ANY manner ESPEICALLY vocally, was discouraged. I have now finally come to see how very unhealthy that is, physically and spiritually. I've been learning how to have conversations/debates about controversial subjects without bursting into tears or feeling personally attacked. All this is fairly new to me, but very interesting and empowering, which is why I am curious about this question regarding Susun.
BTW, I have read that "why is susun angry" post, and found it very informative, as well as Justine's answers.
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