Do you need to be CLEANSED?

[J.Rebecca]

"clean is dead"

That phrase you are using, chickpea, reminds me of something I had read while researching the Gaia Hypothesis, which is: a balanced chemical equation = death.

But I've never heard anyone equate cleanliness of the body with death.

Ethnic cleansing and cleansing one's body just seem like 2 totally different concepts to me. But that's just me.

Just for conversation's sake, let's say your body has been contaminated via exposures to, inhalation of, absorption of, and / or ingestion of lead, mercury, arsenic, phthalates (yes this is a real word for a real class of chemicals), furans, organophosphorous pesticides, organochlorine pesticides, dioxin, Polychlorinated Biphenyls (PCBs), zylene, benzene, DDBP, trichlorofluoromethane, polybrominated biphenyls, silicones, methyl ethyl ketone, phenol, ethyl chloroformate, benzaldehyde, isobutyl acetate, diethylene glycol, naptha, monobutyl ether, cyclohexane, cadmium, and ground level ozone.

So there you are, having been made very very very sick from all those toxic chemicals in your life.

You are now experiencing neurological impairment, high blood pressure, cardiovascular disease, endocrine system disruption, dermatology problems, dysfunctional eustation tube, tremors, headaches, decreased IQ , decreased immune function, central nervous system damage, decreased pulmonary function, altered metabolism, diarrhea and gastric upset, liver dysfunction, decreased energy, bloating, visual disruptions, tumors.

Your bodily systems are maxed out , toxed out, over burdened, and unable to cope.

So, for conversation, what would you do with all those poisons attacking your entire body? Will you effortlessly just lay there, hoping that your damaged waste disposal system will rejuvenate itself with no help from you, or will you seek enlightenment and proceed with a program of detoxification for life?

I'm not exaggerating, because all those chemicals and all those illnesses are from my own toxic life experiences and are well documented. And get this, I'm not anywhere near as contaminated as some of the other people in the chemical injury community are.

As for me, I did seek enlightenment and am following a detox program which includes detox stuff that I found from reading Susun's Books.

And we should also keep in mind that one person's idea of detox may be entirely different from another person's idea of detox. I am not talking about fasting. For me detox is so much more than that, and actually a different thing. Fasting is depleting, to me, and probably why many who fast feel depleted, drained, and sometimes worse than when they began the fast. And so it is possible that I am not even conversing about the same thing as some of you.

So when we review Bear Med's original questions - Why cleansing instead of nourishment? What is the difference? - as it pertains to alternative med, I guess she wants us to define our own concept(s) of cleansing and nourishment, and how they relate to alternative med?

BTW, the "you" I am using is anyone and everyone.

[Bear_Medicine]

I think what I was trying to address is the attitude... nourishing herbs such as dandelion also "detox" the liver, helping this vital organ to perform it's filtering process...

Of course our bodies need to filter harmful chemicals, toxins etc. that is why we have kidneys, skin, liver etc

My point was just that there's a huge emphasis in alternative medicine on being "dirty" and that we need to purged of our filth. I feel like this attitude really needs to be addressed and adjusted

This cleansing is emphasized even for cold, dry deficient type people who really need warm, moist nourishment from food and herbs and life.

When we look at traditional medicine we can see an energetic basis for what is appropriate to an individual, and when we honor that and nourish ourselves, our bodies will be able to filter and gently clean house on its own without colonics, extended fasting or ongoing purification regimens...

The body is an ecosystem and ecosystems don't need to be cleaned, they need to be supported by a healthy foundation so that they can maintain and balance themselves. This is true even when there's some "invasive" species present, if you can bring the ecosystem back into balance by gentle additions of native species and adjusting the soil with minerals etc the invasive species will back off... I know this because I work as a restorationist, and because I also work as an herbalist helping women to restore the natural balance to their bodies.

Having worked with Hep C, cancer, heavy metal poisoning and many degenerative diseases I know that it is possible to do incredibly healing with supportive, nourishing methods.

But really, if your liver is congested and overworked by processed foods and solvents, it can be very nourishing to have a diet focused on fresh greens and liver supportive herbs like dandelion, mugwort and nettles... I guess you could call that cleansing, but as I said before I see the difference in the attitude and the approach to the individual.

But I'm glad I sparked such a discussion

[Luvmyweeds]

J.Rebecca,

What do you do to detox and cleanse?

Lisa

[Judy L]

Bear Medicine wrote:

The body is an ecosystem and ecosystems don't need to be cleaned, they need to be supported by a healthy foundation so that they can maintain and balance themselves. This is true even when there's some "invasive" species present, if you can bring the ecosystem back into balance by gentle additions of native species and adjusting the soil with minerals etc the invasive species will back off... I know this because I work as a restorationist, and because I also work as an herbalist helping women to restore the natural balance to their bodies.

I agree that the majority of the time this is true about ecosystems. Altho, I have been doing native plant restro work for over 10 years and I have not seen "invasives" back off w/o a pretty strong purge over years. I think it then becomes a matter of degree when dealing w/ a body. The state the body/mind is in and what it calls for. What could be beneficial to one constitutional type could be trouble for another.

If we talk about traditional medicines like TCM, Ayurveda and others they do incorporate cleansing into them. It is part of the process. Terminology is even used to rid the body of stagnation/ toxins/ama.

I think a lot of this has to do w/ judgment around the terminology which affects attitude and not understanding how the body works. Most here have stated bodies are self-regulating and know what to do. At times they may need gentle support. There will be times when some need more.

Thinking of forest fires. Destroying everything. Then over time new plants emerge and a whole new system develops. Chemo destroying an immune system and a new one rebuilding. An oil spill. People coming in and cleaning up to help that part of the ecosystem heal. Does intervention need to happen in an extreme way? Not always but it can facilitate healing. Granted these are extremes but if one goes in w/ a loving attitude isn't the outcome the same no matter what one calls it?

[Willow]

I have been following this thread and I can appreciate the points on both sides from all the posters so far. I start to have a problem with the whole cleansing side when I see the 'professionals' trying to scare people to buy their products to clean out their 'filthy colon.' Just today I picked up the mail for a caregiver and it had what people here call the heroic tradition of healing type magazine. It had a color drawing of a 'clean colon' and a 'dirty colon' and the 'professionals' were saying things like if you have only one bowel movement a day then "YOUR IN TROUBLE!" Like we need to take a dump as often as we pee. And the horror stories they tell to prove how ungodly filthy our innards are, regardless of our overall health and it's all because we don't s**t ten times a day . I couldn't bring myself to do more than glance at it. Not a good mindset for anyone to have and shame on those professionals, I say, for trying to scare and gross people out just to make a buck 'cause you know they also try to convince you to keep going back to them for all your healthcare needs. Totally unempowering.

I can see how some of the herbs we use farther down the Seven Rivers of Healing can be thought of as cleansing, but nothing like some of these heroic professionals who try to gross us out about our bodies. I haven't seen anyone responding on this thread with that sort of mindset, thank goodness. Everyone contributing to this thread seems pretty empowered to me.

So in closing I'll say that when I have my 'morning constitution' on a regular basis, I'm feeling pretty cheeky for the day and I don't even think about it again until the next morning.

[chickpea]

I am seeing now how detox and cleanse can overlap in meaning and practice and may both vary in attitudes and intentions, but I still just can't stand this word "cleanse" and I think an important facet of this discussion is how things get defined as "clean" or "dirty".

I am not interested in condemning the actions of others, especially those who are chemically injured. I am more interested in exploring the issues that arise around this word "cleanse" because I think they are extremely relevant to reducing violence and hate, not only in herbal medicine but all human relations. It is the word I take issue with.

I just wanted to make a list of disturbing things that are done in the name of cleanliness:
-chemical cleaners are washed down the drain into water systems
-forests are clear cut (another form of cleaning?) for disposable tissues
-numerous disposable items build up in land fills like tooth brushes
-genocide is committed
-pesticides and herbicides are sprayed all over our food and homes
-dioxins and other chemicals are released into the environment to make things like paper, tampons, and teeth *white* (another way to be clean and a whole other can of worms)

What are the targets of all this cleaning? Bacteria, mucous, people, weeds, bugs, colour. All the things that are defined as "dirt" are all things that are alive or at least represent life, therefore, in this context clean IS dead.

Although these things aren't directly related to cleansing in the herbal medicine context the fact that we use the same word to describe them is no coincidence.

Now of course I recognize, as some of you have mentioned, that in some instances, such as an oil spill or human exposure to chemicals, "cleaning" must occur. But I would prefer to use a different word for these actions. Words like sweeping, washing, wiping, tidying, scrubbing or gathering work much better for me as they don't hold these violent connotations.

[WindDrinker]

Hi Everyone,

Since my visit to the WWC, I can't see or hear the word "cleanse" without hearing the phrase "clean is dead". I remember the comparison of the impulse to cleanse one's body to the impulse of facists to cleanse a population through genocide (for example Rwanda or Darfur or Bosnia). This idea really got to me and made me stop and think about the way I relate to my body.
It is true that there is pollution in our environment and therefore in our bodies whether we live in a city or not. But our bodies eliminate these substances as a matter of course. Rather than trying to accelerate or force this process, which ultimately weakens the system, isn't it better to nourish and lovingly support the organs and processes that deal with the unwanted substances in our bodies?
To me a cleanse is an attempt to override or control the body out of fear, which is really hopeless. Our human consciousness is completely incapable of controlling the body's functions. If we needed to act out in order to breathe, make our heart beat, or make out hair grow we would have time for little else. These things all happen independently of our intelligence and I love to trust that my waste disposal system will function in the same way: effortlessly, as long as I continue noursihing myself and listen when my body asks for something whether it be rest food water or medicine.
Thanks for starting this discussion BearMedicine.

Quite!

[J.Rebecca]

J.Rebecca,
What do you do to detox and cleanse?
Lisa

Lisa,

Various things. If I am in a situation where I can recognize an acute exposure, I will take a dose of alka seltzer gold immediately. That's the one without asprin in it. Basically these exposures make my body go acidic and the alka gold is an immediate alkaline dose. Sometimes that helps, but sometimes nothing helps. Just depends on what I am exposed to. But I really don't like having to take that because of all the sodium. So I increase magnesium on days when I have had to use the alka gold.

Also, I have incorporated gobo root (burdock) and nettles into my diet, and seaweeds as well. I take chlorella too. It's a long process.

Also do skin brushing and have a filter on my shower/tub, to filter the chemicals out of that water.

Have had serious tooth and gum problems, but I have upped my CoQ10 doasge and am using a better olive leaf extract and those two supplements seem to have gotten that under control. I am told that formaldehyde exposures cause this type of problem. The formaldehyde accumulates there, or so I have been told.

For the nausea I take ginger root. I peel the roots and cut into very small pieces, small enough to put under my toungue. And leave in vodka or sherry, in the fridge. Sometimes I eat crystalized ginger as well.

My digestive system was really messed up for a while, but have been using plain raw honey as digestive enzyme, and it really does help, as does the seaweed. High protein diet helps also. For some reason that I cannot remember at this time, ei's cannot survive well as vegetarians. It might be due to some other enzyme thing, but I can't remember for sure right now. Also dandelions have helped with this.

Also I have eliiminated all processed foods. And after I had done that, I started losing weight, not even trying to lose weight. Of course, my ei doc says that my thyroid plays a part in the weight also. It swings back and forth between hyper and hypo, but have not had it tested in a year or so. There are sooo many endocrine disruptors in common products, that I have to be really careful about just about everything we bring into our home.

I had tried bentonite clay, but it made me nauseated and so I gave it to a friend who has good results using it.

Oh, yeah, also we have a couple of water distillers and I use the cleaned water for cooking as well as drinking. But I do add back minerals because distilled water has none in it. I drink a lot of water.

But the past 4-5 months have been really difficult, been ill a lot. Breathing probs, burning eyes, headaches and skin rashes. In conversation with other chemically injured folks, we think that the chemtrails are at the very least, partly to blame for this. I cannot remember not one single day that our skys are not filled with those nasty things. I have to stay inside, most of the time when they are above head. Even when I escape this city and go into the mountains north of here, the chemtrails are still in the skys above me. No place to run and no place to hide. We are constantly assaulted from above by those things. I cannot remember the last time when we had a full 24 hours without the chemtrails in our skys. Sometimes I make a poltice from violet leaves to put on my eyelids and it really does help.

We have a couple of HEPA filters in here and have also put a 6" thick filter on our furnace/AC. So the air in the house is relatively clean. But I do not open windows a lot because of the chemtrails. They suck. We had our windows replaced also, as the old ones were the old style jalouse windows and they let all kinds of bad air into here.

Susun's books have been very helpful also. Some of the stuff mantioned above, I learned to do from reading them.

Avoidance of the things that are known to make me ill is the best thing I can do, especially after recovering from tox out condition. It's a total body load thing.

2-3 years ago we moved to a better neighborhood, houses farther apart, and we have lots of wonderful trees here. In summer, when the trees have their leaves on, the air outside is much more tolerable for me. They filter the nasty laundry chemicals that permeate the air. Those chemicals in laundry products really make me sick. Are filled with neurotoxins and carcinogenic compounds. Sometimes I try to talk with the neighbors about it, and they do seen very interested at the time, but then they just continue on using those poisons. If they could confine their fumes to their own space, that would not be a problem, But they go everywhere and I consider it toxic trespass when they waft over into our yard and airspace.

There's no pesticide registry here in Georgia that I am aware of, and so if any neighbors are ignorant enough to use chemlawn, I gotta stay inside for days.

Also I wear various respirators when I go outside. But not always because human that I am, some days I don't like to think I am different, so restricted.

We would move (again), but my partner has to stay in this town for career reasons. Retirement is not too far in the future, and we do discuss moving to a much more rural area. But if we do that, the variety organic foods we have access to here will be harder to come by.

Do you have any suggestions for other detox foods/herbs/protocols?

[MaDonaVerde]

Another take on the "cleanse" issue from herbalist 7song:

http://www.7song.com/index.php?page=Rec ... 281e60e4f5

[MaDonaVerde]

Bump.

[LadyB]

Just want to update SevenSong's link to his good article on the subject:
http://www.7song.com/index.php?page=699