Care to estimate the ratio and alcohol %?

[hermes]

After a very confusing 2 hours making my first Leonurus cardiaca ('motherwort') tincture trying to adjust the two types of alcohol and vastly expanding herb I ended up with the following - two jars of 1.5L each that are half filled with herb and the remainder of the newly 'brewing' green liquid with some floaters.

I would post a link to my blog if you want the read the long story. Is that allowed?

With all the booze (2.25 litres = 2250 ml) plus the 120 gm herb (when it was dry, it became VERY different once wet) I should be able to come up with the ratio. The process was not consistent, as the herb kept expanding and the jars became less and less adequate in size I moved up into larger volume jars. And as the herb kept expanding I had to use more and more booze.

Of course, the way to avoid this is have a scale and measure the weight to start with. But herbs it appears don't always behave as expected and I am ill-equipped and prefer the folk method. But I want to be able to compare other herbal tinctures of lesser or more alcohol content and higher or lower ratio. I also want to have a record of what it cost per ml also.

My understanding of weight vs. volume ratio is that this mixture is 1:2. Or is it 1:20? When all is said and done the herb (albeit expanded) fills half the jar. If it is 1:10 I will add more herb, but it won't fit because the herb is so absorbent. So what to do?

I am amazed how expensive making tinctures is. With retail highly-taxed prices of liquor in BC, Canada this was about $95 in booze. The herb itself that I used for this project was under $5 (half an 8 oz / 227 gm bag)! And that was certified organic cut and sifted dry herb from a reputable mail-order supplier in Oregon.

Another question is how to determine the pure alcohol content. For these two jars it took 3 bottles of booze plus about a third a bottle of leftover rum. The two bottles of vodka were 100 proof (i.e. 50% alcohol). The 1.3 bottles of rum was 151 proof (i.e. 75ish% alcohol).

I admit it I am a math ningkompoop. Life will be easier if I have consistent size jars, a scale, and follow a plan. But it just didn't work out. And hey, I am in a kitchen not a lab. I went overboard because even quality herbs can be so cheap and I can use only so much as a seasoning, as a 'tea' and in infusions. I am on the road and want to use up all my herbs transforming them into portable medicines.

[crystal woman]

I would post a link to my blog if you want the read the long story. Is that allowed?

Hermes, you can post the link to your blog in this topic if you wish, or you can post it in your profile or your signature line where it will always be visible in all of your posts. Several other members do have links to their blogs and websites in their profiles.

You don't say what part of BC you're in but if you're close to the lower mainland and Vancouver you might want to get in contact with these folks, http://www.gaiagarden.ca/ their dispensary is on West Broadway near McDonald Street in Vancouver. Very helpful folks if you have questions to ask first hand about processing herbs and they might let you peek through the door at the back room where they process and package their herb products so you can see what kinds of equipment they use. The back room is actually open and viewable from the front and it looked very efficient. I purchased a big bag of beautiful, fluffy, clean mullein leaf there last week and the gentleman who assisted me was quite helpful and knowledgeable with his advice.

Also, he was polite and patient and not abrupt with me during our converstation, which was very much appreciated and reciprocated. I mention that because I've noticed you have had a tendency to be somewhat impatient and abrupt in your responses with people here on the board a couple of times. Just saying .... you'll attract more honeybees with nectar than you will with vinegar, if you get my drift.

If you look at their website, along the side you will find several different informative links and articles - like this just for example:

Delivery Systems and Dosage Strategies in Herbal Medicine -
http://www.gaiagarden.ca/articles/dosag ... tegies.php

Maximum Daily and Weekly Doses and Contra-indications of Herbs -
http://www.gaiagarden.ca/articles/dosag ... weekly.php


Personally, if I was just beginning at doing tinctures I would not start out working with so much bulk and volume of product as you are doing until I really got the hang of all that is entailed with tincturing and other methods of processing herbs. I think it is better to start small and simple so you can make mistakes without it being too expensive, and learn from your mistakes and successes, and then work your way up to producing in greater volumes.

Also, I'd suggest you get yourself a kitchen scale for measuring and weighing herbs very soon, you can find them inexpensively in kitchen specialty shops. The vast majority of home herbalists do their work in their kitchens using ordinary kitchen equipment, not in labs using lab equipments.

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[RoseRed]

Tinctures from freshly picked plant material are 1:2.

Tinctures from dried plant material are usually 1:4 or 1:5. I'll use the 1:4 just for simpler explaining. And I'm in the states so I'm using the measurements that I'm familiar with. The technique is the same regardless of using quarts or liters.

To get a 1:4 ratio - for every ounce of dried plant material you will mulitply times 4 to get the fluid ounces.

I like working with 4 ounces of dried herb. 4 ounces of dried herb x 4(for the ratio) = 16 ounces of liquid.

16 ounces of liquid = 1 pint. Add to that the bulk of the 4 ounces of dried herbs and it fits wonderfully in a quart jar.

(The herbalist at my local herb store told me to put the herbs and alcohol in the blender to better break down the cell walls and the tincture started changing color much faster than by just adding alcohol to the dried herb. I'm sure that time would do the same thing).

Once you add the alcohol to the herb you seal the jar and pretty much ignore it. The plant material will expand as it absorbs the liquid but it will stay contained in the jar.

I can't even imagine how much the plant material bulked up trying to do a 1:2 ratio.

[RoseRed]

Ratio of alcohol (and please correct me if I'm wrong- math isn't my strong suit either).

2 bottles of 50%
1 bottle of 75%

Without adding in the extra 3rd of a bottle you have 50+50+75 = 175 divided by 3 = 58%

Adding in the extra 3rd of a bottle would just be a touch higher.

[toujourscoeur]

If you look at their website, along the side you will find several different informative just for example:
Delivery Systems and Dosage Strategies in Herbal Medicine -
http://www.gaiagarden.ca/articles/dosag ... tegies.php

Maximum Daily and Weekly Doses and Contra-indications of Herbs -
http://www.gaiagarden.ca/articles/dosag ... eekly.phpp

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Wow these were some of the most helpful links. Thanks for sharing them. Great timing for me to come across them. Just getting ready to make some tinctures.