Scullcap and Usnea glycerite??

[Bat in the Gloaming]

NOTE: I changed the subject to include Usnea as it became incorporated into this thread.

Has anyone tried making a glycerite with scullcap, instead of using alcohol? Just wondering if glycerine would extract the desired constituents. I would not mind if glycerine did extract the desired constituents but just not as effectively...I could adjust the dose accordingly. (alcohol is not an option for me).

This is an ongoing topic for me...to learn what can be extracted with non-alcohol mediums. Even if it is weaker and doesn't have the preserving life that would be fine. But I don't want to waste my time if a medium just doesn't extract the desired constituent at all.

Thanks

Oh and if anyone knows of a source that goes into which constituents are extracted by which menstruums that would be helpful.

[Lady Alinor]

Wish I had an answer for ya

I've been thinking about experimenting with glycerine extracts, haven't been able to find a food-grade brand on the few trips I'm allowed out of my bubble (hubby is so mean he better watch out when I get done with chemo, I'll be a whirling dirvish)

[Jarba Bean]

Just recently I made a tincture with veg glycerine from skullcap and St. John's Wort (both dried) for my arthritic dog to help control his pain. I strained it after just 3 weeks as it seemed to really gather 'strength' after the first week. It worked great for me

[RoseRed]

Everything I've read said that glycerites pretty much do the same thing as alcohol - just not quite as strong. I don't have any personal experience with it other than a few tinctures I purchased that were an alcohol/glycerite mixture and they weren't as strong as the straight alcohol.

[Bat in the Gloaming]

RoseRed,
You wrote:

Everything I've read said that glycerites pretty much do the same thing as alcohol - just not quite as strong.

I've read that alcohol extracts some constituents that no other fluid can. But not clear what constituents. I'm not making it a priority do good research on this, so my loss. But I'm curios to know what your sources are...maybe when I have time I could read up.

Thanks

Jarba Bean, You wrote:

Just recently I made a tincture with veg glycerine from skullcap and St. John's Wort (both dried) for my arthritic dog to help control his pain. I strained it after just 3 weeks as it seemed to really gather 'strength' after the first week. It worked great for me

So it sounds like you made a glycerite (used glycerine for extracting with no alcohol?) When you said it "gathered strength' does that mean you were dipping in and testing it during the 3 weeks? just curious....

When you said ..."it worked great".... do you mean it worked to reduce pain for your dog? or for You ?

Thanks for replying!

[RoseRed]

There are definitely some - like usnea and that takes high proof alcohol and heat - but most of your plants will extract into both. Maybe there are some things that glycerites can't extract - I haven't done that much research into it since I have no problem taking alcohol tinctures.

I wish I could give you sources - this is just what I've retained in memory when I was really hitting the books.

[Bat in the Gloaming]

RoseRed,
Thank you for your thoughts. It would be a great contribution for recovering alcoholics, for some clear research to be gathered and shared on this topic....it seems so many people who make and use herbal medicines primarily use alcohol for it's superior preserving attributes. But for those of us who totally abstain from alcohol , it would be great to have good info on non-alcohol herbal medicines. Mostly I hear people suggest using alcohol tinctures and let the alcohol off-gas before consuming....not an option for a lot of recovering folks. OR I've been told to " do your own experiments with stronger teas or whatever and find out what works that way"(...gee thanks).

If you remember any books or sources of info on the topic and can pass it my way I'd appreciate it. Maybe I will have the time in the future to do more studies on this myself too. I've been curious for sources that identify what kind of constituents are extracted by what medium and method. Just don't have the time right now to start from scratch doing the research myself. By the way, your info on Usnea is helpful since I tried making a glycerite with usnea (no alcohol or heat) and at least now I know it is probably useless.

Cheers

[sapphire kate]

"By the way, your info on Usnea is helpful since I tried making a glycerite with usnea (no alcohol or heat) and at least now I know it is probably useless."

Not sure that that follows. What did the glycerite taste and look like? You should still be able to do the combined heated decoction then tinctured in glycerine method for usnea. What percentage glycerine are you using? I'm looking at a resource that suggests between 50% and 75% is viable, but 60%-575 is more reliable.


"OR I've been told to " do your own experiments with stronger teas or whatever and find out what works that way"(...gee thanks)."

But remember that water based medicines were in use for thousands of years before alcohol came on the scene

[Bat in the Gloaming]

SK,

But remember that water based medicines were in use for thousands of years before alcohol came on the scene

Your reply made me pause to reflect on my feelings underlying my search for non-alcohol based herbal medicines. Just wanting to connect with other recovering people -- I guess -- who may have already grappled with this...kind of surprised that there have not been many replies to some of my queries on this topic at this forum in the past. But I own that I myself don't have enough motivation to do more extensive research. I was looking for comradery around herbal medicine for alcoholics.

The usnea glycerite is sitting in the fridge since last September..... 16 grams dried usnea with 288grams(1cup) glycerin and 1/5 cup water. All wizzed up together in the blender. Let sit at room temp. for 6 weeks. stirred about once a day. Then put in the fridge. It smelled lovely the first week or two then it smelled weird, not pleasant to me...but not 'off' either. now it is back to smelling good. I did not heat it at all.

I admit that I sometimes mess with herbs impulsively (or intuitively?) like half following some directions and half winging it. Then not feeling confident about the results. Then it sits there not being used because I feel unsure. No need to reply if this is too flakey to follow. I can't even tell you why I wanted to work with usnea....some sense that I wanted to 'relate' to a plant (moss/lichen...what ever the hell it is) that grows around here and it does and I absolutely love the way it smell....it smells familiar and like a good friend.

[sapphire kate]

That all makes sense. I think one of the reasons for not finding much comradery is that even amongst recovering alcoholics there are still many who will use alcohol tinctures. I'm not sure what people do who are avoiding alcohol completely, I suspect they use water preps, or capsules. What you are doing is pioneering and unfortunately you won't get a huge amount of support, because most herbalists have the option of using alcohol and so don't have the think beyond that. Do you have James Green's medicine making handbook? He has a chapter on glycerin and talks about how it is a menstruum to reclaim and needs herbalists willing to do that.

I bet doing the hot decoction then tincturing thing would be very interesting re usnea. It is an amazing plant, and if it grows where you live then it's a good plant to get to know well.


"I admit that I sometimes mess with herbs impulsively (or intuitively?) like half following some directions and half winging it. Then not feeling confident about the results. Then it sits there not being used because I feel unsure."

Do you feel not confident in using the medicine you have made? As in ingesting and watching what happens?

[Jarba Bean]

So it sounds like you made a glycerite (used glycerine for extracting with no alcohol?) When you said it "gathered strength' does that mean you were dipping in and testing it during the 3 weeks? just curious....

When you said ..."it worked great".... do you mean it worked to reduce pain for your dog? or for You ?

Thanks for replying!

Hi Bat,

I used approximately 3 parts glycerine and 1 part water, no alcohol. Yes, I was testing (tasting) it daily. Even after just one day, it turned much darker. It continued to darken and gain strength, but especially after the first week. At the end of week 3, the taste had gotten quite strong. I considered allowing it to go the full 6 weeks but was concerned that it would be too strong for my dog. Even after straining early, I reduced his dosage by half as what is recommended. It worked great as in it extracted the properties from the herbs well. But yes, it does work well for his pain, too I also take it to improve my circulation.

[RoseRed]

Usnea turns a gorgeous shade of orange when it's ready. It also tastes like rotting cardboard. It's one of those medicines that tastes like medicine and you really don't want anything that gross unless you really need it.

There are indigenous cultures that would chew (and chew and chew) and make a spit poultice out of it to prevent or treat infection. I'm assuming that something in the saliva breaks it down into usefulness.

You don't have to ingest all of your tinctures. I've used usnea topically quite a bit. As an infection preventative, to clear a current infection, it even cleared up a horrific case of 'jungle rot' in 2 applications a week apart. That was the coolest thing I've ever seen - you could watch the fungus dying off and the foot clearing up.

You can also use tinctures on the insides of the wrist where the body will absorb it through the skin.

My SIL is in recovery and she had no problem at all with alcohol tinctures. While she was here I showed her how to prep and prepare her own infusions. Some things just work better in tincture form or taste so awful that people can't get them down in tea or infusion form. She put her dropperful in a glass of orange juice to disguise the taste and didn't even notice it (skullcap) was there.

If you're not comfortable with trying that then you can hold your nose and gulp down the teas and infusions. I don't know where you're at in your recovery or if you will be able to tolerate taking a tincture (even disguised) without it setting off an episode of wanting to drink. Only you can make that decision for yourself. Some people in recovery can handle taking NiQuil while others can't. It's a very solitary process finding what you can and cannot tolerate simply because each person's constitution is unique.

Part of the reason people say to experiment is 1) every body is different and what works well for one may not for another, 2) many of us just use the tincture and haven't tried it other ways, and 3) what I've seen from the woman here - they will not give advice they aren't sure of unless they tell you they're not sure.

I think you're talking about skullcap in the above post. Skullcap does not taste good. It's one of those acquired tastes that your body will either accept or reject. I'm used to the taste of it but that doesn't mean I actually like it.

[Bat in the Gloaming]

Thanks RoseRed,

I really appreciate this info on Usnea. Mine didn't turn orange at all. I'm just going to have to 'sit' with this information and see if I can sense how I want to work with the glycerite I've already made. I'm excited to find out more. Usnea seems like a good medicine to have for first aid kits too.

As for your other thoughts regarding the use of alcohol tinctures and being in recovery. I have given this a lot of consideration (I am 5 years sober) and i've decided that what is best for me is no alcohol, not even tinctures that have sat in a cup of water or been heated. I almost died of my alcoholism and this is one area where total abstinence, black and white thinking is just the right thing for me. (Including not handling it, of having it topically nor smelling it). I can't speak for anyone else. But I'm sure there are some other people like me and I think it would be a wonderful service for those of us in this mode for whom non--alcohol medicine is available.

On the topic of experimenting with herbs to find your own inner guide....Yes I love that, I do that and I think it is one reason I love SW and this forum. When I ask questions and look for info it is just in the interest of saving time, finding comaradery, getting another perspective and hearing other wise people's experiences. I also dont' have tons of spare cash and buying ingredients to 'experiment' with can include ending up with duds that don't work...Specifically - with regards to skullcap - I was wondering if it's medicinal constituents are the kind that only extract via alcohol then it seems a waste of time to try extracting it via glycerin[/color]. That is my main impetus for asking questions about it, and my curiosity in general about other herbs.

Thank you for taking the time to comment.
I love learning more about Usnea and skullcap.

[Bat in the Gloaming]

Jarba Bean,
Thanks for the detail on how you use skullcap.

[Bat in the Gloaming]

SK,
You wrote: "Do you feel not confident in using the medicine (usnea glycerite) you have made? As in ingesting and watching what happens?"

No I don't feel confident on this one. Partly because I am squeamish about getting weird microbes growing and not being able to identify it, then it causing sickness...but also because by the time the usnea glycerite was done I didn't have a way to strain it and I had forgotten what it's medicine is for...Then other life stuff got busy and I've just been procrastinating on what to do next. (I feel a little embarrassed admitting all that...but oh well).

I think I'll read up on it again and try straining it through a nylon stocking.

Thanks SK for your wonderful questions and the way they always invite deeper inquiry.